Taylor Swift can count several people in her close friends list, but how they became her friends was a bit complicated.

In a throwback interview with Rolling Stone in 2019, the Grammy winner said, “Some of my best friendships came from people publicly criticizing me and then it opening up a conversation.”

Also, the Carolina hitmaker even name-dropped some of them: Hayley Kiyoki and Lorde.

“Hayley Kiyoko was doing an interview,” the 35-year-old recalled. “And she made an example about how I get away with singing about straight relationships and people don’t give me **** the way they give her **** for singing about girls—and it’s totally valid.”

“Like, [real name] Ella—Lorde—the first thing she ever said about me publicly was a criticism of my image or whatever,” the Cruel Summer singer added.

In other news, Taylor and Travis Kelce have been spending time together after the couple was under intense speculation about the alleged rift between them.

“Taylor and Travis are taking it easy right now,” an insider told RadarOnline. They’ve been laying low in Kansas City,” adding, “They went to Park City to go skiing.”

“They’ve been traveling, spending precious time together and letting the rest of the world go for a bit,” the bird chirped.